How you define what is and isn't rock?

[porkchop]

While things like Psychedelic Rock, Prog Rock, and Alternative are usually agreed on as rock, some ''rock'' genres are not.

New Wave, Post Punk, Proto Punk, early metal genres, synthpop, and various others with heavy roots in rock, that are debatable as being rock.

In mentioning New Wave and Synthpop, I understand some are more synth heavy and less rock structured. If you listen to most New Wave groups, especially the late 1970's and early 1980's groups, all the rock is still there, just now backed by synth.

So how do you choose which genres are rock and which ones aren't?

[MissChromeNun]

Good question.

If I were to listen to an individual song that was presented as belonging to some sort of rock genre, and heard the "familiar" components of what should - to my ears - go into any rock song, then I would accept it as rock without giving it another thought.

I guess it lies in what "should" go into any rock song; guitars, for instance.

[50s60sgroovymusic]

It depends on music musicians play in my case. 

But I sometimes feel when black musicians play rock, they tend to be regarded as R&B, or Blues musicians, which I disagree with.  I don't know if it's a stereotype or not.

[acidtripper666]

Sept 27, 2016 2:11:21 GMT -6 50s60sgroovymusic said:

It depends on music musicians play in my case. 

But I sometimes feel when black musicians play rock, they tend to be regarded as R&B, or Blues musicians, which I disagree with.  I don't know if it's a stereotype or not.

Black people invented rock

[acidtripper666]

Sept 27, 2016 1:50:39 GMT -6 porkchop said:

While things like Psychedelic Rock, Prog Rock, and Alternative are usually agreed on as rock, some ''rock'' genres are not.

New Wave, Post Punk, Proto Punk, early metal genres, synthpop, and various others with heavy roots in rock, that are debatable as being rock.

In mentioning New Wave and Synthpop, I understand some are more synth heavy and less rock structured. If you listen to most New Wave groups, especially the late 1970's and early 1980's groups, all the rock is still there, just now backed by synth.

So how do you choose which genres are rock and which ones aren't?

Not all new wave has synths

[porkchop]

Sept 27, 2016 8:00:46 GMT -6 acidtripper666 said:

Sept 27, 2016 1:50:39 GMT -6 porkchop said:

While things like Psychedelic Rock, Prog Rock, and Alternative are usually agreed on as rock, some ''rock'' genres are not.

New Wave, Post Punk, Proto Punk, early metal genres, synthpop, and various others with heavy roots in rock, that are debatable as being rock.

In mentioning New Wave and Synthpop, I understand some are more synth heavy and less rock structured. If you listen to most New Wave groups, especially the late 1970's and early 1980's groups, all the rock is still there, just now backed by synth.

So how do you choose which genres are rock and which ones aren't?

Not all new wave has synths

That statement is quite loaded.



While New Wave as a popular genre popped up around 1976 with acts like Pretenders, Talking Heads, and The Cars, where synths were rarely used, or not at all(save for the cars), was more an ushering in of the genre. While '76-78' used minor amounts of synth, arguably most prominent acts of the '79-'83 era of New Wave used synth. Most acts at the time that didn't use synth could be considered New Wave, often would get slapped as Post-Punk, or sometimes Post-Punk/New Wave, since they had that New Wave feel just without synths.

The problem with that is that what truly defines New Wave as a genre? Is it a broad genre or sub genre? Is it the content matter of the song?



While I am in an agreement with you that not all new wave has synth, I must say New Wave without synth is more Post-Punk with pop attributes and got lumped in with the New Wave groups simply for playing the right stuff in the right era.

[acidtripper666]

Sept 27, 2016 16:28:45 GMT -6 porkchop said:

Sept 27, 2016 8:00:46 GMT -6 acidtripper666 said:

Not all new wave has synths

That statement is quite loaded.



While New Wave as a popular genre popped up around 1976 with acts like Pretenders, Talking Heads, and The Cars, where synths were rarely used, or not at all(save for the cars), was more an ushering in of the genre. While '76-78' used minor amounts of synth, arguably most prominent acts of the '79-'83 era of New Wave used synth. Most acts at the time that didn't use synth could be considered New Wave, often would get slapped as Post-Punk, or sometimes Post-Punk/New Wave, since they had that New Wave feel just without synths.

The problem with that is that what truly defines New Wave as a genre? Is it a broad genre or sub genre? Is it the content matter of the song?



While I am in an agreement with you that not all new wave has synth, I must say New Wave without synth is more Post-Punk with pop attributes and got lumped in with the New Wave groups simply for playing the right stuff in the right era.

Originally, punk rock was a part of the new wave. And some post-punk has synths.

[porkchop]

Sept 27, 2016 18:13:21 GMT -6 acidtripper666 said:

Sept 27, 2016 16:28:45 GMT -6 porkchop said:

That statement is quite loaded.



While New Wave as a popular genre popped up around 1976 with acts like Pretenders, Talking Heads, and The Cars, where synths were rarely used, or not at all(save for the cars), was more an ushering in of the genre. While '76-78' used minor amounts of synth, arguably most prominent acts of the '79-'83 era of New Wave used synth. Most acts at the time that didn't use synth could be considered New Wave, often would get slapped as Post-Punk, or sometimes Post-Punk/New Wave, since they had that New Wave feel just without synths.

The problem with that is that what truly defines New Wave as a genre? Is it a broad genre or sub genre? Is it the content matter of the song?



While I am in an agreement with you that not all new wave has synth, I must say New Wave without synth is more Post-Punk with pop attributes and got lumped in with the New Wave groups simply for playing the right stuff in the right era.

Originally, punk rock was a part of the new wave. And some post-punk has synths.



Yes, it was. More so as part of the New Wave cultural movement as opposed to the New Wave musical movement, hence my saying why they got lumped together.

[Fritz]

I used to hang out on a New Wave forum and these discussions of what is and isn't New Wave would come up all the time.  If there's anything I took away from that was there doesn't seem to be any universally accepted definition and it depends a whole lot on where you're from. 

There is a huge gulf between what the Brits think of as New Wave and what Americans do.  The British definition pretty narrow and specific, whereas the Americans basically lumped anything "synthy", "weird", or British that didn't fit the norms of AOR radio into New Wave.  It was funny; the Americans would always include genres like Ska or New Romantic in with New Wave and the Brits would lose their minds over it.

[mrbluesky]

Sept 30, 2016 7:50:11 GMT -6 Fritz said:

I used to hang out on a New Wave forum and these discussions of what is and isn't New Wave would come up all the time.  If there's anything I took away from that was there doesn't seem to be any universally accepted definition and it depends a whole lot on where you're from. 

There is a huge gulf between what the Brits think of as New Wave and what Americans do.  The British definition pretty narrow and specific, whereas the Americans basically lumped anything "synthy", "weird", or British that didn't fit the norms of AOR radio into New Wave.  It was funny; the Americans would always include genres like Ska or New Romantic in with New Wave and the Brits would lose their minds over it.

Spot on! Here in the UK ska and Mew Romantic fans would be up in arms if you classed their music as new wave. A band like the Undertones were classed as new wave by the music press yet fans would say they were pop punk.

Genres you can have many bands crossing over and deciding what is rock is always open to debate. If it's a good song don't mind the genre or if it's rock